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楼主: musicbeibei

[大众保健] 猪流感疫苗~Yes/No

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 楼主| 发表于 2009-12-11 23:49 | 显示全部楼层
不管戴安娜死因如何,她是死了。
3 e9 z0 W1 j( c3 e) v" D不管再怎么掩盖疫苗的真实内容,现在所有的渠道包括政府自己也承认了疫苗中含有汞和纳米强化剂。) k9 W) J' l. V8 j
汞是百年前就证明了对人体有害的,而纳米对人体肺细胞的损伤也是已经通过验证的。事实就是事实,是杞人忧天论,心存侥幸论和患得患失论不能代替的。
% U" [* v7 b: s1 J! p; _/ J
0 J+ C& c. |: ?# B有人愿意利己,无可厚非。但是还有一种东西叫良知。没有哪一个人是完全独立生活在世界上的,很多时候,该考虑一下能为别人做点什么。
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/ @9 {( j% h( R( @9 m和所谓的舆论“唱反调”是很困难的。比如疫苗这件事。你会发现很多人,其实并非自己为自己做了决定,而是一味的被媒体,被舆论,被医生,被社会牵着鼻子走。放弃自由的思考,放弃自己的决定权,这才是最悲哀的。当然,必须说的是,很多人都并没有充分运用自己的知情权。获取信息的渠道并非电视和杂志,还有很多其他的方式。
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我能做的,只是从另一个方面来陈述一个事实。
Die von den Nutzern eingestellten Information und Meinungen sind nicht eigene Informationen und Meinungen der DOLC GmbH.
发表于 2009-12-12 07:37 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 shoppingindolc 于 2009-12-12 07:48 编辑
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9 P/ ?+ D9 e  O& WSafety of pandemic (H1N1) 2009 vaccines
+ Y- ?# q% K$ H$ z, F+ x30 October 2009
; R" q% q- i# [0 g' k, Vhttp://www.who.int/csr/disease/s ... roval/en/index.html8 i9 b4 k( w$ L0 j# |' T
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Safety+ Y& {4 c" h! F5 @  c- t1 c9 p4 p
Are pandemic vaccines safe?
* a4 \& X5 E" G* @% JOutcomes of studies completed to date suggest that pandemic vaccines are as safe as seasonal influenza vaccines. Side effects seen so far are similar to those observed with seasonal influenza vaccines.
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* d. F* F8 \' j7 k; A1 uWhat about safety for pregnant women?
' y  r: i; R- }' U. \- rTo date, studies do not show harmful effects from the pandemic influenza vaccine with respect to pregnancy, fertility, or a developing embryo or fetus, birthing or post-natal development. In view of the elevated risk for severe illness for pregnant women infected by the new influenza, in clinical studies, pregnant women are a group that should be vaccinated against infection, as supplies allow.+ C7 Q- U/ s! Q+ w! W

: `/ V2 j. M5 _1 F* gRecent studies show that infected pregnant women have a 10 times higher chance to require hospitalization in intensive care units than infected persons in the general population, and 7% to 10% of hospitalized cases are women in their second or third trimester of pregnancy. The benefits of vaccination far outweigh the risks.' X% Z" p* \4 e: l# u( A& ]

4 |0 W/ G# m6 P) Z1 _Additional studies on pregnant women following immunization are continuing.
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What about my child's safety from a reaction?& {# j5 ~/ C1 V  b0 P
The most frequent vaccine reactions in children following influenza immunization are similar to those seen after other childhood immunizations (such as soreness at the injection site, or fever). A child's health care provider or vaccinator can advise on the most appropriate methods for relief of the symptoms. If there are concerns about a child's safety from a reaction, consult a health care provider as soon as possible. Please note that a child may suffer from a condition not related to immunization, which coincidentally developed after vaccination.
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. x  I. b* z6 J1 h8 C. iTesting and approval, g  e: i) m% @' |
What kind of testing is being done to ensure safety?
; O8 ]2 D- x/ T6 }% O1 mBecause the pandemic virus is new, both non-clinical and clinical testing is being done to gain essential information on immune response and safety. The results of studies reported to date suggest the vaccines are as safe as seasonal influenza vaccines. However, even very large clinical studies will not be able to identify possible rare events that can become evident when pandemic vaccines are administered to many millions of people.6 Q% R- z7 b% A* L# E5 t

/ i  \7 k; O. _3 b' K3 kWHO advises all countries administering pandemic vaccines to conduct intensive monitoring for safety and report serious adverse events.
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Who approves pandemic vaccines for use?
7 K; E. R2 Q0 G0 b, Z& l$ {National authorities for medicines approve (or license) pandemic influenza vaccines for use. These authorities carefully examine the known and suspected risks and benefits of any vaccine prior to its licensing. Expedited regulatory processes in some countries have helped to license the new vaccine in a timely manner. However, the testing and manufacturing processes for the new vaccines are similar to seasonal influenza vaccines to ensure quality and safety.! _1 U+ x  i* G- e

3 G  H- p6 U+ ^2 ]0 M- GSide effects
- T7 m& |+ Y3 w* o# y: iWhat are the expected side effects of the new vaccines?
4 g! I- ^4 n: V* _Some side effects can be associated with influenza vaccination. How often they result depends on the type of vaccine, how it is administered, and the age of the vaccine recipient. There are two main types of vaccines: one is manufactured with inactivated viruses, the other uses live viruses.0 v0 T$ q# c" K+ O& V* ^
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Inactivated vaccines, administered by injection, commonly cause local reactions such as soreness, swelling and redness at the injection site, and less often can cause fever, muscle- or joint- aches or headache. These symptoms are generally mild, do not need medical attention, and last 1 to 2 days. Fever, aches and headaches can occur more frequently in children compared to elderly people.
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6 c; [, u% m  Q/ o, mRarely, such influenza vaccines can cause allergic reactions such as hives, rapid swelling of deeper skin layers and tissues, asthma or a severe multisystem allergic reaction due to hypersensitivity to certain vaccine components.
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Live vaccines are given via a nasal spray, and can commonly cause runny nose, nasal congestion, cough, and can less frequently cause sore throat, low grade fever, irritability and head- and muscle- aches. Wheezing and vomiting episodes have been described in children receiving live influenza vaccines.4 j+ z9 V0 S: i) t* |) d

2 l3 Y5 n' P( K8 @2 k4 C: kHave clinical studies identified all the possible side effects?
! f/ a% a/ `2 Y0 I6 K% }; VAgain, even very large clinical studies will not be able to identify possible rare events that can become evident when pandemic vaccines are administered to many millions of people. These can only be assessed when a vaccine is in widespread use.' i+ w( Q$ q! D; [' \
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Clinical trials often provide safety information for the general population. Additional monitoring of some special groups of vaccine recipients is necessary to gather specific safety information.0 q  r: L  @7 @; m; ^  p1 J6 I+ X

0 G1 \% \7 W1 B5 l3 v' ]Additional and comprehensive monitoring efforts of the pandemic influenza vaccine are being planned as they are being used by more and more people around the world.
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) R" L$ m; G7 }" R7 RWHO advises all countries administering pandemic vaccines to conduct intensive monitoring for safety, and report adverse events.
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7 }4 E; k3 l' n! u% L! hAdverse events+ d! _+ u$ H- w4 T9 R8 B, Z+ _
Have their been any reports of serious reactions, or adverse events, to pandemic vaccines?; W2 W; r5 f  r% K. Y4 x: n
As of late October, there is no indication at this stage that unusual adverse events are being observed after immunization, according to clinical trials and adverse event monitoring during deployment of vaccines in early introducer countries. The need for continued vigilance and regular evaluation by health authorities is ongoing.
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% d* ^; H+ Q2 C; W' V4 a! v6 xHow should serious reactions to the vaccines be reported?' [0 S/ [0 r# ]' B% N
Reports of serious adverse events, and those raising concerns, should always be submitted to national authorities. So far, reports of potential adverse events following immunizations have been well notified to authorities.+ H2 q4 W" l) k) U: R1 U6 Z$ E2 r  g

- m3 z% m" P/ i0 P6 j; CWhat happens when an adverse event is reported?  Z1 i; o1 M0 u( M
At the national level, individual reports are scrutinized for completeness and possible errors. In some instances, reports need to be validated and additional details must be checked. Reports are analysed for findings that are expected or appear more frequently than expected. If an analysis indicates a potential problem, further studies and evaluation are conducted and all relevant national and international authorities are informed. Decisions for appropriate measures are then made to ensure continuing safe use of the vaccine.  X6 D0 a% T) E" a0 v2 G
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Risks falsely associated with vaccines
3 U2 o3 j; m& b' C& S+ ?! |& |Will pandemic vaccines contain thiomersal, which some believe is a risk to health?
" I* |1 f' H$ f, T( Y/ MThiomersal is a commonly used vaccine preservative to prevent vaccine contamination by bacteria during use. Inactivated vaccines will contain thiomersal if they are supplied in multi-dose vials. Some products can have ''traces" of thiomersal when the chemical is used during the production process as an antibacterial agent, which is later removed during the purification process.
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5 H5 d; k8 Q# f+ s% @* H6 eThiomersal does not contain methyl mercury, which is a naturally-occurring compound and whose toxic effects on humans have been well studied. Thiomersal contains a different form of mercury (i.e. ethyl mercury, which does not accumulate, is metabolized and removed from the body much faster than methyl mercury).7 b" B( ?. ]/ t

$ J+ y, a* |0 EThe safety of thiomersal has been rigorously reviewed by scientific groups. There is no evidence of toxicity in infants, children or adults, including pregnant women, exposed to thiomersal in vaccines.
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' l# d! k' [  o; _8 N( k5 GWhy do some pandemic influenza vaccines contain adjuvants and others don't? Are vaccines with adjuvants a health risk?" z& ~5 R) V1 \6 W8 J! I, E
Adjuvants are substances that enhance the immune response in vaccines and can make them more effective. They have been used for many years in some vaccines. Scientific data support the safety of adjuvants in pandemic influenza vaccine production." Z$ f6 N/ X( f* h* q

. \/ R' O% L8 S% i) S0 I# C: RSome seasonal influenza vaccines that are intended for people known to have poor immune responses to immunization contain an adjuvant. Some pandemic vaccines contain an adjuvant to reduce the amount of virus antigen to be used (an antigen is a substance capable of stimulating an immune response).7 c1 g3 p% D5 p& F
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Manufacturers decide whether a product is formulated with or without an adjuvant. Adjuvants used with pandemic influenza vaccines are already licensed for use with other vaccines (e.g. hepatitis B, seasonal or pandemic influenza vaccines, or others), and have a safe track record.
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Can influenza vaccination cause chronic diseases?5 o) I# n. }5 n
Current evidence does not indicate that seasonal influenza or pandemic influenza vaccines, or any other vaccine against novel human influenza viruses, either induce or aggravate the course of chronic diseases in vaccine recipients. Careful assessment is required to clarify if adverse events that occur after vaccination are actually caused by an influenza vaccination.' Q5 f) ]; |9 _/ A* s7 w

4 `' {. f2 R1 c8 s$ \, o2 LCan influenza vaccination cause Guillain Barré syndrome?
' \' E* m* a+ |4 {: [% i" I: {Guillain Barré syndrome (GBS) is a rapidly developing, immune-mediated disorder of the peripheral nervous system that results in muscular weakness. Most people recover completely but some have chronic weakness. It can develop following a variety of infections, including influenza. In people who have been immunized with available vaccines, the frequency of GBS usually is the same as in unvaccinated people. Extensive studies and data analysis of influenza vaccines have only found a well established causal association with the 1976 vaccine that contained an H1N1 swine-influenza-like virus. No other clear association has been found with either seasonal or other pandemic influenza vaccines.
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How can a repeat of the 1976 swine flu vaccine complications (Guillain-Barré syndrome) experienced in the United States of America be avoided?
1 _9 T$ t4 `7 F+ u0 C) v, \2 ^) lDuring the 1976 influenza vaccination campaign, about 10 persons per million vaccinated persons developed GBS.
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' B) i# ~4 ^, \' L3 ZThe reason why GBS developed in association with that specific vaccine has never been firmly established. The potential for the development of a similar risk with future vaccines can never be totally excluded. However, pandemic influenza vaccines are manufactured according to established standards, and are similar to recent well-studied influenza vaccines that have shown no association with GBS. Surveillance after vaccines have been sold (post-marketing surveillance) is being conducted to look for potential developments of serious adverse events. Safety monitoring systems are an integral part of strategies for the implementation of the new pandemic influenza vaccines.: z( ?: ?! o7 B# _/ i

# n! J: h5 m  t' B- h(updated from 12 July 2009, 27 May 2009 and 2 May 2009 versions)
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发表于 2009-12-12 14:10 | 显示全部楼层
最近我感冒了,嗓子不舒服,但我自信这不是流感。我自从从国内出来就没幸运过!
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发表于 2009-12-12 22:16 | 显示全部楼层
其实很简单,戴安娜是被英国王室谋杀的还是自己点儿背就是事故撞死的,估计以后也没人能查得清楚;这疫苗到底是好是坏,至少就现在来讲能有个准信儿?觉得那些把这个问题绝对化支持的还是绝对化反对的都很无聊--绝对 ...
9 E$ q& u7 ~) {1 I, Xcj567765 发表于 2009-12-9 08:06

6 [1 w9 f5 B' w+ |) F# }我觉得我打疫苗是自己作的决定,并不是被谁牵着鼻子走。当然我有可能被蒙蔽了,这我就无能为力了。% T' z- ?5 m, e3 L) K- l0 C4 X, T
纳米强化剂我不懂,纳米只是一个计量单位,为什么纳米会损害肺?楼上在这里是不是也是指纳米强化剂?但我认为疫苗里面是不会含汞的,这在德国应该还是应该有保障的。; m! G, n- H2 ]- I, `! S
现在我已经打了疫苗,暂时没有什么不良反应,当然也希望将来也不会因此的什么慢性病。% [* k. H6 W7 a; a6 J' D
这是我个人观点,只在这里给其他人我个人的一点信息。决定权当然是当事人自己的。
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发表于 2009-12-12 22:19 | 显示全部楼层
最近我感冒了,嗓子不舒服,但我自信这不是流感。我自从从国内出来就没幸运过!
& _1 b  p6 u) {6 j* lbluto 发表于 2009-12-12 14:10

9 a; p8 v8 g( l$ T3 h4 v得猪流的还是少数,就算得了也没什么太大不了的。你如果来德国不久可能是水土不服,这里的医生讲就是两个国家的细菌病毒都不一样,所以容易得病,要慢慢适应。过段时间就好了,我刚来的时候也是这样。
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 楼主| 发表于 2009-12-16 00:25 | 显示全部楼层
疫苗中含汞是公认了的,只是在讨论其含量是否影响人体的问题。我觉得很奇怪,不管是否决定注射疫苗,为什么大家都不自己广泛的收集材料,从多方面了解信息,而宁愿听信某个医生的一面之词。你怎么知道医生没有拿药商的回扣???????????
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http://www.impfschaden.info/impfungen-allgemein/impfstoffe.html
. L) N% J( I" a; t$ phttp://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/175/492531/text/
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发表于 2009-12-16 17:13 | 显示全部楼层
汞是百年前就证明了对人体有害的,而纳米对人体肺细胞的损伤也是已经通过验证的。事实就是事实,是杞人忧天论,心存侥幸论和患得患失论不能代替的。- ]/ q# D% [9 [8 l; S! |" z
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有人愿意利己,无可厚非。但是还有一种东西叫良知。 没有哪一个人是完全独立生活在世界上的,很多时候,该考虑一下能为别人做点什么。' C  i: s1 r4 D. O

8 S3 f" x- x) x3 a9 q和所谓的舆论“唱反调”是很困难的。比如疫苗这件事。你会发现很多人,其实并非自己为自己做了决定,而是一味的被媒体,被舆论,被医生,被社会牵着鼻子走。放弃自由的思考,放弃自己的决定权,这才是最悲哀的。当然,必须说的是,很多人都并没有充分运用自己的知情权。获取信息的渠道并非电视和杂志,还有很多其他的方式。+ o" e# i$ y  ]% g4 V+ W0 @
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我能做的,只是从另一个方面来陈述一个事实musicbeibei 发表于 2009-12-11 23:49 [img]; {" u! v/ x% B7 R8 @6 M
[/img]

. Z3 e% J0 f: J  A我不是专家,不知道汞或者纳米添加剂对人体会造成什么样的损害,这里面又是怎样的原理,往里掺点这东西是不是就是居心不良的奸商行径(真不知道这疫苗怎么通过审批的。。。也不知道你拿来举例作抨击的时候是不是自己都搞明白这些“事实”先了);而一点副作用都没有,绝对化完全无害的药物是否存在--话说这根本也不是争论的焦点,麻烦仔细看下我写的--什么时候我们这些勇于做小白鼠的同志就都是“不自己广泛的收集材料,从多方面了解信息,而宁愿听信某个医生的一面之词”了?这么主观的判断又是来自何处呢?“你怎么知道医生没有拿药商的回扣???????????”----有人在为医生们鸣冤么?
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3 u# s/ A6 `2 k% ?我写了些自己的观点,不过就是对你所提及的所谓的顾教授之流的做法有点不感冒,你自己都说了,“一味的被媒体,被舆论,被医生,被社会牵着鼻子走。放弃自由的思考,放弃自己的决定权,这才是最悲哀的。”,那么把自己的观点强加于人算不算“试图牵着别人鼻子走”?“陈述事实”?抱歉,恰恰在这一点失了本分。而我说来说去无非想提个基本的观点而已--“针对疫苗每人有自己做决定的选择权”,就这么简单,“良知”?这高度。。。 。。。
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 楼主| 发表于 2009-12-16 18:33 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 musicbeibei 于 2009-12-16 18:34 编辑 . h( }, a; J5 B: _
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不知道你是否认真看了我提到的几个网站。我并没有强加我的观点与你,可是看到这里很多人都在为是否注射疫苗举棋不定,便想出来说明一下自己的观点。我知道有LS这样的人会来拍我,不管是因为你自己心中的恐慌,还是因为对提出异议的“顾教授之流”不屑一顾。你可以决定注射,我可以决定不注射,我能说出理由来,至于你是否接受,是你的事,与我私人而言完全无关。
' b4 D/ l) \0 \# R至于医生,抱歉的告诉你,很多医生没有什么冤屈可鸣,他们拿药商的回扣不是一天两天的事情了。. {0 r' x+ x2 m7 V% U0 G  X

8 a# X+ Z1 `3 v2 D+ `“什么时候我们这些勇于做小白鼠的同志就都是“不自己广泛的收集材料,从多方面了解信息,而宁愿听信某个医生的一面之词”了?这么主观的判断又是来自何处呢?”
! W  F0 c3 ~4 ?- v你是不是太过激动了?????你怎么知道我就说你是小白鼠???请仔细阅读我的原文。我说的是很多人,我说了就都是????你不觉得你有点无理取闹瞎激动的意思????
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“我不是专家,不知道汞或者纳米添加剂对人体会造成什么样的损害,这里面又是怎样的原理,往里掺点这东西是不是就是居心不良的奸商行径(真不知道这疫苗怎么通过审批的。。。也不知道你拿来举例作抨击的时候是不是自己都搞明白这些“事实”先了);而一点副作用都没有,绝对化完全无害的药物是否存在--话说这根本也不是争论的焦点。。。” 对不起,我觉得这些就是争论的焦点问题。如果你觉得不重要,我们也没有什么讨论的必要~~~
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发表于 2009-12-16 19:17 | 显示全部楼层
...至于医生,抱歉的告诉你,很多医生没有什么冤屈可鸣,他们拿药商的回扣不是一天两天的事情了。...
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4 j- K$ y# }; w$ `) ~- [musicbeibei 发表于 2009-12-16 18:33
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对于这样的义愤填膺实在是无语了。。。ok,拿回扣的医生死全家。。。满意了?唉。。。到底是谁在那儿瞎激动哦。。。关于小白鼠。。。就是我无聊了幽自己一默都不行?行行行,你要愿意就继续去扮你的专家,用你的“良知”强迫别人不要打疫苗,或是继续兜售你的“慢性病”论调好了,确实说对了,没有与你继续再讨论下去的必要了。
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 楼主| 发表于 2009-12-16 21:28 | 显示全部楼层
完全不明白你从哪里看出我强迫别人了???说你莫名其妙还真不差~! H" }2 [3 J, n6 r1 j* E: I

* e; w0 V7 I& a你愿意做出一副完全无所谓的样子是你的自由,就不影响你的好心情了~~~您慢走不送~
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