一个高人在英国电讯报上关于新疆热B娅的评论 (zt)

goldenfly · 发表于 2009-7-10 00:35

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http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Military/32168707.html

发信人: rcam (色即是空), 信区: Military
标题: 太牛了，希望大家广为转贴
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jul 9 17:49:12 2009, 美东)

贴到所有西方媒体的网站（news discussion or blog)

一个高人在英国电讯报上关于新疆热B娅的评论

Comment from markinnj on Jul 9th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

http://web.wenxuecity.com/BBSVie ... ry&MsgID=578070

I just finished watching an interview with Ms Rebiya Kadeer and found a few
interesting facts:

1. She had 11 children, which confirms that Uighurs were not subject to
China's One Child Policy.

2. She was born to a family with no background. She started her business
with a road side convenient store and worked her way to be THE richest
person in the province of Xinjing. This proved Uighurs can earn their
business success through hard work.

3. She was a senior member of the People's Congress of Xinjing, and a senior
member of the National People's Congress of China. This shows Uighurs were
not excluded from political life in China.

4. She was arrested because she provided funding to Eastern Turkestan and
carried out activities in China following instructions from Eastern
Turkestan. Eastern Turkestan is labeled as terrorist organization by most
countries including the US, Russia, China, etc.

goldenfly · 发表于 2009-7-10 00:35

这篇写得也非常好，好像是个老墨写的

Elvis Esparza
July 8, 2009 03:43 AM

So many here on Businessweek are misinformed about China. Imperialism?
Cultural Genocide? Racism? Colonialism?

For starters the area of Xinjiang (with Mongolia) has ALWAYS either being a
part of China or has posed a threat to Chinese civilization due to nomadic
barbarians (Xiongnu, Ruan, Turks, Mongols, & Tatars). Traditionally the
Chinese were forced to pacify those regions via either outright conquest (
Han &Tang dynasties) or punitive expeditions (Han, Sui, & Ming dynasties) to
force them into vassal status, otherwise they had to "hold the line" so to
speak by using the Great Wall. Today's PRC has decided on outright rule both
due to its natural resources and so that is serves as a buffer region.
Completely and totally understandable and in realpolitic terms justifiable.
Since one of the ways to secure a territory is to settle your own people
there (see the Romans, Incas, the United States, and of course Imperial
China) the Chinese government is doing the same thing encouraging Han
Chinese to migrate to Xinjiang (as well as Tibet - also for purposes of
natural resources and to serve as a buffer region).

If you look throughout history the Han Chinese have NEVER committed genocide
or massacred minorities due to their religious beliefs. In the history of
the 2000+ year Chinese empire, ONLY when a foreign dynasty (the Manchu Qing)
ruled where their massacres of religious minorities performed by the
government. Native Han Chinese dynasties (Han, Jin, Sui, Tang, Song, and
Ming) did NOT massacre religious minorities. In fact Daoists, Buddhists,
Jews, Christians, & Muslims all lived in the empire and NONE were relegated
to 2nd class citizens. Whenever a sect was persecuted it was NOT the
worshippers but the religious elite (example Buddhist monasteries during the
9th century AD) and then it was due to them acquiring power and therefore
possing a threat to the ruler. Last but not least the Han Chinese NEVER
forced those who did not practice Daoism and/or Buddhism to convert to such
faiths. Compare that to the history of Christians (forced conversions,
burning at the stakes, Papal sanctioned crusades, persecuting heretics &
Jews, Papal sanctioned enslavement of non-Christians, and religious wars) or
Muslims (enslavement of non-Muslims, jihads, relegating Christians & Jews
to 2nd class caste status, & persecution of Shiites or Sunnis).

The Chinese Communist Party is doing their best to bring prosperity to the
citizens of China. While many of them are doing it for selfish reasons (
either they want to get rich themselves and/or they are "bribing' the
citizenry so that they stay in power), other members of the party are doing
so for patriotic reasons. Regardless of their ulterior motives it is working
as they have increased the country's GNP from hundreds of billions in the
late 1970s to $4+ trillion, have brought several 100 million out of poverty,
and elevated over a 100 million Chinese into the middle class. The People's
Republic of China is now the world's leader in auto & steel production, 2nd
place (and soon to be #1) in shipbuilding, the world's center in
electronics production, a world leader in both nanotechnology &
biotechnology, the world's largest solar cell industry, & has the fastest
growing semiconductor industry in the world.

At this time Communist China has a high-speed rail network larger than
Europe's and expanding. It is building a highway system larger than the USA'
s. The government has car fuel standards superior to that of the USA and is
expected to produce more energy from any of the following three renewable
sources(hydroelectric, wind, or solar) than the USA by 2020 and are building
or planning to build 30-50 nuclear power plants. They are also self-
sufficient in grains (and only import to feed their booming hog industry).

The fact is that while the Uighurs or Tibetans may NOT be benefiting as much
as the Han Chinese, the fact is that they are benefiting as their standards
of living are rising and they are becoming more educated. It is simply that
being rural people (generally), living in the farthest & most remote
regions of China, not speaking Mandarin (or any other Chinese dialect), &
not using the Chinese writing system the struggle to adapt or take advantage
of the opportunities out there in China. Of course the fact that there are
separatist movements in both Tibet and Xinjiang, and that in the case of
Xinjiang there is even a terrorist group has only WORSENED the situation for
the Uighurs and Tibetans as it has increased China's distrust of the
minorities in those two regions and therefore has exponentially increased
the level of government supervision (or oppression) via laws and regulations
that are not present in the rest of China which together with the larger
than usual paramilitary presence in both Xinjiang & Tibet makes things more
oppresive.

Last but not least it is funny how so many Muslims are claiming that the
Chinese government is oppressing the Uighurs. This coming from a "world" in
which Christians can't establish churches in Saudi Arabia, Muslims can't
convert to other religions without being killed, Christian missionaries
cannot operate in many Muslim countries without fearing for their lives, and
Christians & Jews are restricted in many Islamic countries as to what the
types of jobs they can have and/or where they can build temples. In addition
you have Muslims periodically rioting against Chinese in Malaysia and
Indonesia (burning property, assaulting and murdering Chinese, and raping
Chinese women) with the backing of the Muslim governments and in the case of
Malaysia you have Muslim Malays forcing the Chinese to pay a tribute of 30%
of their businesses. Compare that to the Chinese trying to help the Uighurs
better themselves via education, affirmative action in jobs, and even
permitting them to have more than one child (compared to the Han Chinese).

How quick the Uighurs were to turn to violence and attack civilians with
bricks, sticks, & knives. If it was the ethnic Chinese who did it in
Malaysia or Indonesia they would have been massacred by the Muslim majority
or the military, the PLA showed far more restraint. If it was Han Chinese
who did it in China the world would have condemned it as ethnic cleansing
against the Uighur minority.

商业周刊上关于中国的错误消息太多了。帝国主义？文化灭绝？种族主义？殖民主义？http://www.ccthere.com/article/2299135

从一开始，新疆地区（以及蒙古）要么是中国的一部分，要么就是作为游牧民族（匈奴
人、Ruan（这个不懂是指谁）、突厥人、蒙古人、以及鞑靼人）成为中华民族的一个威
胁。历史上，中国人被迫以完全征服（比如汉朝、唐朝）或者惩罚性的远征（汉朝、隋
朝以及明朝）来迫使他们称臣，否则他们就要用长城这样的方式来“坚守防线”。因为
自然资源和提供缓冲这两个原因，今天的中华人民共和国已经决定对其实行完全的统治
。这是完全可以理解并有充分合理的理由的。由于让某个地区安全稳定的办法之一就是
把你自己的人民迁移到那里（参考罗马人、印加人、美国人、以及中国古代的帝国），
中国政府做了同样的事情，鼓励汉人迁入新疆（西藏也是如此——同样是为了那里的自
然资源和提供缓冲）

如果你浏览历史就会知道，汉人从来没有热衷过灭绝或者屠杀其周边的少数民族以及他
们的宗教信仰。在中华帝国两千多年的历史上，只有在一个外族朝代（满清）的统治下
由政府官方对少数民族宗教信仰实行了大屠杀。汉人朝代（汉、金、隋、唐、宋、以及
明）从未对少数民族的宗教信仰进行屠杀。事实上道教、佛教、犹太教、基督教还有伊
斯兰教都在帝国内发展，没有哪个成为二等公民。无论何时哪个宗教被打击了，受害的
不是信徒，而是宗教的精英（比如公元9世纪期间的佛教寺庙），他们试图获取权力，
因此对统治形成了威胁。最为重要的是汉人从来没有强迫那些不信仰道或者佛教的人皈
依到这些宗教门下。做为对比，我们可以回顾一下基督教的历史（强制皈依、焚烧异教
徒、教庭征伐、迫害异教徒和犹太教徒，对非基督徒的教庭奴役，以及宗教战争）或者
伊斯兰教的历史（对非穆斯林的奴役、圣战、将基督徒和犹太教徒归为二等公民，还有
对什叶派和逊尼派的迫害）。http://www.ccthere.com/article/2299135

中国共产党尽其所能为中国民众带来繁荣。尽管他们中的大多数人这样做也是有为了自
己的原因（他们想让自己变得富有以及/或者以此“讨好”民众长期掌权），也有一些
党员是出于爱国之心而努力工作。不考虑他们的内在动机，他们的工作使得这个国家的
GNP从上世纪70年代末的几千亿美元上升到了4万多亿，让数以亿计的民众脱离了贫困，
让超过1亿的中国人成为了中产阶级。现在的中华人民共和国在汽车和钢铁的生产上成
为了世界的第一，在造船业上成为了世界第二（也很快就要成为第一了），并且是世界
电子产品的生产中心，拥有世界先进的纳米技术和生物技术，世界最大的太阳能电池工
业，同时还是世界半导体工业增长最快的国家。

到如今共产主义中国已经拥有比欧洲更大的高速铁路网，并且还在扩大之中。正在建设
中的高速公路网要比美国更加庞大。中国政府制定的汽车燃油标准要比美国政府制定的
标准更高，并且期望在2020年之前从水电、风能、太阳能三种可再生能源中的任何一种
当中获取的能源高于美国，30-50座核电站也正在建设或者计划建设之中。他们还实现
了粮食的自给自足（进口的粮食只用于其快速发展的养猪业）。http://www.ccthere.com/article/2299135

事实上，尽管维族人和藏族人可能没有能从中得到汉人一样多的好处，但是他们的生活
标准、教育水平因此而得到提高却是不争的事实。作为生活在中国偏远地区的农村民众
（一般说来），不会讲普通话（或者是任何的中国方言），不会使用汉字，不难理解要
适应这种变化或者从中获取到与中国其它地区一样的机会并不是一件容易的事情。不可
否认在西藏和新疆存在着分裂运动，在新疆甚至还有一股恐怖份子在把维族和藏族的形
势搞的更为糟糕，因为他们的所做所为增加了中国人对这两个地区少数民族的猜疑，并
由此而指数级地放大了政府通过法律及在中国其它地区所没有的规定进行监控（或者说
是压迫）的级别，这种做法和在新疆、西藏两个地区超出常规的军事存在一起使得事情
变得更为负面。

最为搞笑的是居然有这么多的穆斯林声称中国政府在迫害维族人。发出这种声音的人生
活在这样的一个“世界”：基督徒不能在沙特阿拉伯建立教堂，穆斯林不能信仰其它宗
教否则就要被处死，基督教的传教士不能不顾姓命地在许多穆斯林国家传教，基督教和
犹太教在许多伊斯兰国家被列为禁忌，而他们自己却可以做他们自己愿意做的事情、在
他们自己喜欢的地方建清真寺。此外你还应该记得穆斯林在马来西亚和印度尼西亚这样
以穆斯林为政府后台的国家周期性地发动针对华人的暴动（焚毁房屋、攻击并杀害华人
、以及强奸华人妇女），还有在马来西亚你们的穆斯林市长们强迫华人为他们的贸易活
动支付30%的利润。请把这些与中国政府通过教育、工作机会民族平等、不执行计划生
育（该政策针对汉人）等方式尽力帮助维族人相形比较。http://www.ccthere.com/article/2299135

维族人倒向暴力并用砖块、棍棒、以及刀具攻击民众是多么的迅速。如果马来西亚和印
度尼西亚的华人也采取这样的做法，他们早已经被当地占大多数的穆斯林或者军队杀尽
了，中国军队已经展现了极大的克制。如果汉人在中国做这样的事情，那么世界也早已
经宣告中国人对维族这一少数民族进行了种族清洗。

【在 rcam (色即是空) 的大作中提到: 】
: 贴到所有西方媒体的网站（news discussion or blog)
: 一个高人在英国电讯报上关于新疆热B娅的评论
:
: Comment from markinnj on Jul 9th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
: http://web.wenxuecity.com/BBSVie ... ry&MsgID=578070
: I just finished watching an interview with Ms Rebiya Kadeer and found a
few
: interesting facts:
: 1. She had 11 children, which confirms that Uighurs were not subject to
: China's One Child Policy.
: 2. She was born to a family with no background. She started her business
: ...................

chinasohn · 发表于 2009-7-10 00:54

好文

samxysam2002 · 发表于 2009-7-10 01:02

Ruan应该是柔然人

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一个高人在英国电讯报上关于新疆热B娅的评论 (zt)

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